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Post by bloodsinc on Jan 24, 2016 18:54:23 GMT 1
Greetings Fellas! So, right now I'm trying to build a super tanky team that can retaliate effectivly, and wanted some info/help from the senpais of this forum I was wondering which one of those abose would fit better for a tanky composition: Naga or Behemoth ? Both in terms of defensive stats, damage output and utility. I do know that both of them are quite tanky (not sure wich one is the most tho) and that naga has a more powerful active skil, while Behemoth has that OP armor shredd. I couldn't compare stats because I'm still 5 shards away from Behe, so I kinda had to ask you guys about ur preferences My team is currently looking like this: Helena(can Aqua swap her?), Cyclops, Trinity, Centaur, Naga/Behemoth; I removed hyperia cause she seems way too RNG heavy in arena.. Thanks for reading this, and HF!
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Post by ℜ★Xega on Jan 24, 2016 19:15:29 GMT 1
Behemoth is way more tanky I think, naga just has a strong ult spell. Behemoth better overall I'd say, a lot more HP at purple level too.
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Post by bloodsinc on Jan 24, 2016 19:32:37 GMT 1
Behemoth is way more tanky I think, naga just has a strong ult spell. Behemoth better overall I'd say, a lot more HP at purple level too. Thanks for letting me know, I thought they were close in terms of tankyness, at least by the looks of their passives (and wikia growth stats, but most of the time, their equipment set is what ends up mattering the most..)
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Post by karoo on Jan 24, 2016 22:17:05 GMT 1
Sorry I don't have equipment in the wiki yet. It is not easy to get working.
Behemoth has roughly 1.25* as much health as naga when maxed out, though before you max them, will have more due to tenacity.
Naga does more damage, period. Her skill, unlike his, does not divide damage among the 4 hits. basically 1-shots everything if all 4 connect.
Behemoth is good for low defense targets, due to -1120 per hit. he combines well with high melee damage heroes, like naga (lol) or zia.
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Post by bloodsinc on Jan 25, 2016 0:16:14 GMT 1
Sorry I don't have equipment in the wiki yet. It is not easy to get working. Behemoth has roughly 1.25* as much health as naga when maxed out, though before you max them, will have more due to tenacity. Naga does more damage, period. Her skill, unlike his, does not divide damage among the 4 hits. basically 1-shots everything if all 4 connect. Behemoth is good for low defense targets, due to -1120 per hit. he combines well with high melee damage heroes, like naga (lol) or zia. It's ok, thanks for the info you've been sharing so far So, would you recommend Behemoth over Naga on a tanky team ? Cause I think having both of them in one team is kinda hard since the other spots would be, in most of the cases, taken by helena, cyclops, centaur and a good filler (Dracula/Trinity/Pixie/Gable/any decent off-tank dps) Thanks for the tips though bro ! Cheers !
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Post by karoo on Jan 25, 2016 4:15:46 GMT 1
Sorry I don't have equipment in the wiki yet. It is not easy to get working. Behemoth has roughly 1.25* as much health as naga when maxed out, though before you max them, will have more due to tenacity. Naga does more damage, period. Her skill, unlike his, does not divide damage among the 4 hits. basically 1-shots everything if all 4 connect. Behemoth is good for low defense targets, due to -1120 per hit. he combines well with high melee damage heroes, like naga (lol) or zia. It's ok, thanks for the info you've been sharing so far So, would you recommend Behemoth over Naga on a tanky team ? Cause I think having both of them in one team is kinda hard since the other spots would be, in most of the cases, taken by helena, cyclops, centaur and a good filler (Dracula/Trinity/Pixie/Gable/any decent off-tank dps) Thanks for the tips though bro ! Cheers ! no need to hold helena, cyclops, centaur sacred. if you are thinking helena is a must have for arena, know that as you move up she will get killed more easily. do whatever you want.
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Post by zylas on Jan 25, 2016 15:34:03 GMT 1
karoo is right helena loses here greatness as you move up. This update also makes her aggro higher so she doesn't get bypassed now and that hurts her even more
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Post by bloodsinc on Jan 25, 2016 16:39:15 GMT 1
karoo is right helena loses here greatness as you move up. This update also makes her aggro higher so she doesn't get bypassed now and that hurts her even more So what u mean with this, is that a healer is no longer a Must-have for those tanky-teams (and other kinds of compositions) ? If that's the case, how can I make a team with the highest possible survivavility?
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Post by karoo on Jan 25, 2016 17:14:10 GMT 1
karoo is right helena loses here greatness as you move up. This update also makes her aggro higher so she doesn't get bypassed now and that hurts her even more So what u mean with this, is that a healer is no longer a Must-have for those tanky-teams (and other kinds of compositions) ? If that's the case, how can I make a team with the highest possible survivavility? Healing was never necessary for tanks, or any team. Still not terrible, but consider a more useful healer (alexander, trinity, aqua) or tanks with extra low magic defense (defense reduces healing, so it works best on low mag def, high phy def). If you want to use helena to good effect on a tanky team, you need to survive long enough to use her skill. Helena used to be op in arena because of the self healing, basically she was targeted last and if you could eliminate all the melee, the opponent needed 2-3 range left to kill her (or zia). This tactic of stalling out to round 10 used to be a staple on defense, but now that her target priority has changed, and enemies do more damage overall, at p+2 it doesn't really help, and you should build a team to kill all the enemy. (this can still involve helena, particularly if it lets a high damage hero survive long enough to use their skill another time)
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Post by bloodsinc on Jan 25, 2016 20:08:08 GMT 1
So what u mean with this, is that a healer is no longer a Must-have for those tanky-teams (and other kinds of compositions) ? If that's the case, how can I make a team with the highest possible survivavility? Healing was never necessary for tanks, or any team. Still not terrible, but consider a more useful healer (alexander, trinity, aqua) or tanks with extra low magic defense (defense reduces healing, so it works best on low mag def, high phy def). If you want to use helena to good effect on a tanky team, you need to survive long enough to use her skill. Helena used to be op in arena because of the self healing, basically she was targeted last and if you could eliminate all the melee, the opponent needed 2-3 range left to kill her (or zia). This tactic of stalling out to round 10 used to be a staple on defense, but now that her target priority has changed, and enemies do more damage overall, at p+2 it doesn't really help, and you should build a team to kill all the enemy. (this can still involve helena, particularly if it lets a high damage hero survive long enough to use their skill another time) I do know that Helena isn't the best support in terms of overall utility, but for now, in terms of supports that's all I have, and Trinity wouldn't be enough of a healer without some1 backing her up with that role, I see her heal as a bonus to her already awesome skillset. And thanks for that healing info, I never knew that a Hero's mdef would change the outcome of a friendly heal.. it doesn't rly make much sense tho Guess I'll try out a few different comps and see how things go , thanks for the tips both of you ! Really appreciated!
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Post by razk on Jan 25, 2016 21:07:13 GMT 1
I got curious and did the stats calculation for you: Naga HP 30974 Dmg 17494 Phy Def 8569 Mag Def 7078 Crit 9 Dodge 13 Neg MDef 9 Initial Energy 175 Att Energy Bonus10 Behemoth HP 49082 Dmg 15554 Phy Def 7409 Mag Def 5969 Crit 13 Dodge 5 Neg MDef 5 Initial Energy 200 Att Energy Bonus40
This is their stats at level 70 purple+2 with equipments(no enchants). I include their 4th passive skills as well, the other skills are too complicated to include.
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Post by mortivore on Jan 25, 2016 21:50:10 GMT 1
I got curious and did the stats calculation for you: Naga HP 30974 Dmg 17494 Phy Def 8569 Mag Def 7078 Crit 9 Dodge 13 Neg MDef 9 Initial Energy 175 Att Energy Bonus10 Behemoth HP 49082 Dmg 15554 Phy Def 7409 Mag Def 5969 Crit 13 Dodge 5 Neg MDef 5 Initial Energy 200 Att Energy Bonus40 This is their stats at level 70 purple+2 with equipments(no enchants). I include their 4th passive skills as well, the other skills are too complicated to include. How many stars? 5*? Behemoth looks a lot tankier, but naga still got oneshot skill - and the parry to lower damage
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Post by bloodsinc on Jan 25, 2016 22:23:51 GMT 1
I got curious and did the stats calculation for you: Naga HP 30974 Dmg 17494 Phy Def 8569 Mag Def 7078 Crit 9 Dodge 13 Neg MDef 9 Initial Energy 175 Att Energy Bonus10 Behemoth HP 49082 Dmg 15554 Phy Def 7409 Mag Def 5969 Crit 13 Dodge 5 Neg MDef 5 Initial Energy 200 Att Energy Bonus40 This is their stats at level 70 purple+2 with equipments(no enchants). I include their 4th passive skills as well, the other skills are too complicated to include. Wow dude, that's a huge help m8 !! Adding a few minor parts: Naga will always have at least +568 p def (hero attacks her/she attacks an enemy) at least so i guess we can put her p def at 9k Behemoth vs Naga "big" stats would be: -49k hp vs 31k hp -15.5k atk vs 17.5k atk - 7.4k p def vs 9k p def Active skill: - In a normal case scenario, Naga will sucessfully hit 3 times(70%~ of hits), which would result in around 3 as much damage as Behemoth's active skill On ther counter side.... - Behemoth shreds over 1k p def per hit, (~3.5k pdef using active, which I guess that they get instantly discounted, therefore increasing the active skill damage output; - If Behemoth sucessfully kills an enemy, he gets close to a 3k increase in atk I guess the final conclusion would be: - All in/1shot/double-punch team ? - Naga is the answer - Tanky/Control-ish/Utility-oriented team ? - Behemoth would be the answer Woud you guys agree with me on this ? And thanks razk for that super useful piece of information bro, u rock!
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Post by karoo on Jan 26, 2016 0:18:10 GMT 1
I got curious and did the stats calculation for you: This is their stats at level 70 purple+2 with equipments(no enchants). I include their 4th passive skills as well, the other skills are too complicated to include. your stats are slightly off, here are the hps: 31130 hp 49070 hp I am not sure where your error was. also neglect defense is both types, though it says magic or physical depending on the hero type. eventually I will have a hero stat calculator in the wiki, though i might need some help with the programming when the time comes. elhana is better than me at this but doesn't want to work on his site, and wikia restricts me a little.
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Post by 2ez2kill on Jan 26, 2016 11:27:10 GMT 1
Well, as far as I know both of them have nearly equal strength as best damage dealer and tanker in a team.. Naga have higher defense, higher damage, lower HP, but she could overcome it with her parry skill which is likely reduce dmg received goes down drastically.. In the other hand, behemoth as we know have higher HP but lower def and dmg,though he have reduce enemy's phy. Dmg and increase own dmg skills which is make him in par with naga in term of dmg..
I've tested who would be the winner between naga and behemoth in sky arena when fighting myself for 6 times.. And the results are naga 4 v behemoth 2.. It should be 3 : 3, if behemoth's attack haven't been missed in one round and parried in the next round.. Also, the first one who have their ulti charged is most likely comeout as winner.. Since both of their ulti means death for another side..
Conclusion: Both of them are savage and deadly as hippopotamus..
Recommendation: Try to pair them up for better result..
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Post by snjits on Jan 26, 2016 11:29:05 GMT 1
well parry is more rng dependant than having higher HP
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Post by razk on Jan 26, 2016 12:19:42 GMT 1
I got curious and did the stats calculation for you: This is their stats at level 70 purple+2 with equipments(no enchants). I include their 4th passive skills as well, the other skills are too complicated to include. your stats are slightly off, here are the hps: 31130 hp 49070 hp I am not sure where your error was. also neglect defense is both types, though it says magic or physical depending on the hero type. Oh, I must have missed an equipment or two. Another thing we should consider is that Naga is easier to farm and should get you to 5 stars almost twice as fast.
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Post by snjits on Jan 26, 2016 13:32:46 GMT 1
your stats are slightly off, here are the hps: 31130 hp 49070 hp I am not sure where your error was. also neglect defense is both types, though it says magic or physical depending on the hero type. Oh, I must have missed an equipment or two. Another thing we should consider is that Naga is easier to farm and should get you to 5 stars almost twice as fast. that depends how you prioritize spending (sky)arena coins though if you focus those on a few specific heroes those ll be 5 star faster
case in point: naga was my first pull natural 3 star yet she's about 60/100 to 4 star while hyperia and merlin are already at 4stars (gable and trinity are further along then naga too)
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