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Post by 181Light on Nov 21, 2016 5:28:27 GMT 1
f2p - The game is free to play
p2p - The game costs money to play
p2w - The game costs money to complete
There are several types of in game currency. Gold Coins, Arena Coins, Sky Coins, Guild Coins and Crystals. All of these in game currency can be obtained in game withought paying real currency for them making them all - f2p
The game offers the full range of its Story, Legend and herioc Mode to all players - f2p
The game offers its Sky arena to all players, in addition to this, players can borrow heroes from fellow guild mates including the exclusive dolphi Heroes - f2p
The game offers its boss fights to all players, again, allowing you to use guild.mates heroes so that you can play the boss with a VIP hero. - f2p
The game offer an automated arena to all players to use their heroes in, the arena offers generous payouts depending on rank encouraging players to constantly better themselves. - f2p
The game offers a real time PVP areana. They took an extra step here to balance new players and experienced players. A level 20 player has an equal oppurtunity to win agaist a level 80 maxed out everything player in this arena. No special VIP heroes here... - f2p
The game does not charge any kind of required monthly subscription to play making it - f2p
The game needs to make money, and so it offers a cheap monthly promotion so that you can recieve crystals and raid cards daily. You are certainly not required to purchase this. -p2p
The game is a business, and does want to make a proffit. An on-line game is like a club. The club has expenseses and like any business needs to make money to stay in business. This club has its doors open to anyone to join for free. They can stay and hang out for as long as they want for free. They currently keep 4 heroes reserved for those that do spend enough money to get to VIP Rank 11. Even if you've spent the money to get there, these heroes are not just handed to you, they require crystals to play for like a slot machine. But thats it, once your there you could never spend another cent and get the full range on in game content for free.
so to recap 41/45 Heroes can be obtained for free, equal in everyway to someone who is VIP 0 or VIP 15 The game content is Free to Play from level 1 - 80
If you enjoy the game enough to want to get your heores the full range of entertainment value, why are the f2p screaming the game is all about pay to win? I am persoanly playing two accounts, one is currently VIP 14, i buy up good promotions as they come around. Ive played it for over a year now and still love it. i dont mind supporting good entertainment value with money. i want to see this game grow, evolve and become better than it is now. To me, its still cheaper than what i spend on movies or drinks monthly. I also play a VIP 0. I play it to see if the game is unbalanced f2p vs p2p. i am level 60, ive moved up over 7,000 ranks in the arena. i play the boss, the sky, arena and story just like i do on my vip 14. i have about 2,000 crystals, hoping the farand box comes back soon. With that said, i certainly dont see the game as pay to win. its a free to play game with a few incentives to spend money on it. i have not see anything game breaking.
now i put it to you as a question. if this was your club, what would you do different to encourage all the members that are hanging out for free to spend some money in your place of business?
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Bobberooni
Teenager
VIP 12
Posts: 245
Server: 139 Phoenix (USA)
ID: 2053883
LVL: 80
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Post by Bobberooni on Nov 21, 2016 7:11:26 GMT 1
Well said. This is definitely a f2p game but the company still stays in business by offering some deals and heroes that will better your gameplay.
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Post by zalastro on Nov 21, 2016 9:52:31 GMT 1
Nice try using a creative definition for p2w.
P2w is pay to win or pay to compete!
This also shows that arena has a p2w component. It doesn't matter here if there are many or few high vip heroes, already one giving you an edge makes it partly p2w.
Regarding the rest of the game being f2p, yes I agree, however if you're goal is reaching max level with several maxed heroes I personally wouldn't recommend playing the game as vip 0. Too much manual grind.
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Post by PBJT on Nov 22, 2016 7:05:11 GMT 1
now i put it to you as a question. if this was your club, what would you do different to encourage all the members that are hanging out for free to spend some money in your place of business? I would say that your analysis is biased... - You cannot fully compete in the arena with a f2p team. - You cannot fully compete on boss damage with a f2p team. - Last time I checked Pegasus was available at PVP arena (It's an OP hero if you know how to use it) - The 41 heroes are not obtained equal in every way...It's much easier to obtain them when you get free soulstones when buying gems. - Since you play on a free and VIP14 account I am curious to know on witch one you spend more time on... I'd say it's on the F2P one since you have to do all the fights manually, which can get pretty boring. But hey, I'm not saying you are wrong... Just that you are extremely biased, since a lot of the content can only be fully enjoyed when you pay at least 250$. In my opinion, paying more than 250$ on a mobile game is a lot. You say you are VIP14 (Basically you spent 500$ on the game right?)... Do you realise that with that money you could have bought a trip to Paris (395$ NY->Paris on Skyscanner)+ 5 Days of stay in a cheap hotel? Not into travelling? Well you could have bought a Playstation 4 (300$) plus 4 games of your preference. Now, answering your question... If I was in charge of the game I would try to make the benefits available for a smaller amount of money spent (Let's say you pay a monthly fee to get acess to VIP benefits). Those benefits would be also reduced (Heroes less powerful). In my opinion this would attract more players and keep them in the game without the impression of getting robbed. Most P2W players usually pay a bunch of money on early stages to get all the benefits and then on late stages (If they keep playing the game) they do not spend a lot more than the daily crystals (as you said, if there is a good offer you would buy). Instead of trying to get the maximum amount of money from a player in the first months then they would naturally spend less and eventually stop, they could switch their philosophy, making the game interesting for more time (Of course, this would require constant updates and new features) and keeping a small inflow from a lot more people. Let's say having the benefits would encourage three times more players to spend about 10$ a month. If you take the balance of one year the amount spent by a Big Whale would be the same of three average players: Whale: 250$first month+10$*11months=360$ 3 regular players: 3players*10$*12months = 360$ I think this is a perfectly plausible situation since people would be playing the game for more time + more players would play the game. But of course, if there is people willing to pay 250$ in a mobile game why wouldn't the developers take advantage of that?
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Post by Bob on Nov 24, 2016 6:40:42 GMT 1
now i put it to you as a question. if this was your club, what would you do different to encourage all the members that are hanging out for free to spend some money in your place of business? I would say that your analysis is biased... - You cannot fully compete in the arena with a f2p team. - You cannot fully compete on boss damage with a f2p team. - Last time I checked Pegasus was available at PVP arena (It's an OP hero if you know how to use it) - The 41 heroes are not obtained equal in every way...It's much easier to obtain them when you get free soulstones when buying gems. - Since you play on a free and VIP14 account I am curious to know on witch one you spend more time on... I'd say it's on the F2P one since you have to do all the fights manually, which can get pretty boring. But hey, I'm not saying you are wrong... Just that you are extremely biased, since a lot of the content can only be fully enjoyed when you pay at least 250$. In my opinion, paying more than 250$ on a mobile game is a lot. You say you are VIP14 (Basically you spent 500$ on the game right?)... Do you realise that with that money you could have bought a trip to Paris (395$ NY->Paris on Skyscanner)+ 5 Days of stay in a cheap hotel? Not into travelling? Well you could have bought a Playstation 4 (300$) plus 4 games of your preference. Now, answering your question... If I was in charge of the game I would try to make the benefits available for a smaller amount of money spent (Let's say you pay a monthly fee to get acess to VIP benefits). Those benefits would be also reduced (Heroes less powerful). In my opinion this would attract more players and keep them in the game without the impression of getting robbed. Most P2W players usually pay a bunch of money on early stages to get all the benefits and then on late stages (If they keep playing the game) they do not spend a lot more than the daily crystals (as you said, if there is a good offer you would buy). Instead of trying to get the maximum amount of money from a player in the first months then they would naturally spend less and eventually stop, they could switch their philosophy, making the game interesting for more time (Of course, this would require constant updates and new features) and keeping a small inflow from a lot more people. Let's say having the benefits would encourage three times more players to spend about 10$ a month. If you take the balance of one year the amount spent by a Big Whale would be the same of three average players: Whale: 250$first month+10$*11months=360$ 3 regular players: 3players*10$*12months = 360$ I think this is a perfectly plausible situation since people would be playing the game for more time + more players would play the game. But of course, if there is people willing to pay 250$ in a mobile game why wouldn't the developers take advantage of that? Anyone above VIP 9 are idiots
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Post by finest on Nov 24, 2016 18:11:52 GMT 1
now i put it to you as a question. if this was your club, what would you do different to encourage all the members that are hanging out for free to spend some money in your place of business? I would say that your analysis is biased... - You cannot fully compete in the arena with a f2p team. - You cannot fully compete on boss damage with a f2p team. - Last time I checked Pegasus was available at PVP arena (It's an OP hero if you know how to use it) - The 41 heroes are not obtained equal in every way...It's much easier to obtain them when you get free soulstones when buying gems. - Since you play on a free and VIP14 account I am curious to know on witch one you spend more time on... I'd say it's on the F2P one since you have to do all the fights manually, which can get pretty boring. But hey, I'm not saying you are wrong... Just that you are extremely biased, since a lot of the content can only be fully enjoyed when you pay at least 250$. In my opinion, paying more than 250$ on a mobile game is a lot. You say you are VIP14 (Basically you spent 500$ on the game right?)... Do you realise that with that money you could have bought a trip to Paris (395$ NY->Paris on Skyscanner)+ 5 Days of stay in a cheap hotel? Not into travelling? Well you could have bought a Playstation 4 (300$) plus 4 games of your preference. Now, answering your question... If I was in charge of the game I would try to make the benefits available for a smaller amount of money spent (Let's say you pay a monthly fee to get acess to VIP benefits). Those benefits would be also reduced (Heroes less powerful). In my opinion this would attract more players and keep them in the game without the impression of getting robbed. Most P2W players usually pay a bunch of money on early stages to get all the benefits and then on late stages (If they keep playing the game) they do not spend a lot more than the daily crystals (as you said, if there is a good offer you would buy). Instead of trying to get the maximum amount of money from a player in the first months then they would naturally spend less and eventually stop, they could switch their philosophy, making the game interesting for more time (Of course, this would require constant updates and new features) and keeping a small inflow from a lot more people. Let's say having the benefits would encourage three times more players to spend about 10$ a month. If you take the balance of one year the amount spent by a Big Whale would be the same of three average players: Whale: 250$first month+10$*11months=360$ 3 regular players: 3players*10$*12months = 360$ I think this is a perfectly plausible situation since people would be playing the game for more time + more players would play the game. But of course, if there is people willing to pay 250$ in a mobile game why wouldn't the developers take advantage of that? Im just gonna point out to you Im a Vip14 just as Light. He has been playing over 1 year and me just over 5 months. Now let me just ignore the dude that bashing whoever spend more than 200 bucks in this game, I feel all his jealousy in the air. Let me point it out to the comparison that 500$ could be some trip to Paris, something that you deem very important to justify your spending. Look at 5months durations and at least 3,4 hours a day spending on the game. Considering only spending 500 bucks for me is Super cheap. Im not saying Im filthy rich . But to my definition,500$ can get me wht? Gym membership at 24hrs fitness sport 50 a month for 10 months which i spend less than 2 hour / week to work out. -500$ 2 times getting a fine hooker or one time a smoking hot one -500$ one 30 minute helicoper ride in Vegas -is how much I spend over 2 weekends with my friends on boozes and food at the bars - I can get 4 cheap used 90% thread tires for my sedan -a 3 days cruise to mexico , not including spending extra 1grand for airfare , food and shit . So for a man, if he needs to spend 500bucks on a hobbg that Lasts for 5 months ( in Light case is over 1 year) , he will just gonna do it . Why? Because he is a grown ass man who work and earn money. A regular guy who doesnt live on welfare and cry, who isin a kid who live with mom and has to borrow her credit card for every purchases. . He is not some little girls who dont work and always ask bfs for money. No, he (or we ) is just an ordinary guy spending a decent amount of dollars on a hobby, just like playing golf, tuning cars, collecting stamps, holy fucking girls, crashing parties...
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Post by gecimen on Nov 24, 2016 18:54:45 GMT 1
LoL Red john, nice post I'm VIP 12 and I do think the game forces you to pay for VIP3 for raid cards. Not much but I know many left because of the manual grind. Manual grind in this game is not humane. Other than that it's all fair. Having VIP heroes make you 10% stronger, but it's nothing besides good tactics and insane grind regardless of your VIP level. While I agree the 300$ i've spent isn't too much, it isn't a number anyone can afford. I wish the game were much more F2P friendly.
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Post by PBJT on Nov 25, 2016 2:44:19 GMT 1
I would say that your analysis is biased... - You cannot fully compete in the arena with a f2p team. - You cannot fully compete on boss damage with a f2p team. - Last time I checked Pegasus was available at PVP arena (It's an OP hero if you know how to use it) - The 41 heroes are not obtained equal in every way...It's much easier to obtain them when you get free soulstones when buying gems. - Since you play on a free and VIP14 account I am curious to know on witch one you spend more time on... I'd say it's on the F2P one since you have to do all the fights manually, which can get pretty boring. But hey, I'm not saying you are wrong... Just that you are extremely biased, since a lot of the content can only be fully enjoyed when you pay at least 250$. In my opinion, paying more than 250$ on a mobile game is a lot. You say you are VIP14 (Basically you spent 500$ on the game right?)... Do you realise that with that money you could have bought a trip to Paris (395$ NY->Paris on Skyscanner)+ 5 Days of stay in a cheap hotel? Not into travelling? Well you could have bought a Playstation 4 (300$) plus 4 games of your preference. Now, answering your question... If I was in charge of the game I would try to make the benefits available for a smaller amount of money spent (Let's say you pay a monthly fee to get acess to VIP benefits). Those benefits would be also reduced (Heroes less powerful). In my opinion this would attract more players and keep them in the game without the impression of getting robbed. Most P2W players usually pay a bunch of money on early stages to get all the benefits and then on late stages (If they keep playing the game) they do not spend a lot more than the daily crystals (as you said, if there is a good offer you would buy). Instead of trying to get the maximum amount of money from a player in the first months then they would naturally spend less and eventually stop, they could switch their philosophy, making the game interesting for more time (Of course, this would require constant updates and new features) and keeping a small inflow from a lot more people. Let's say having the benefits would encourage three times more players to spend about 10$ a month. If you take the balance of one year the amount spent by a Big Whale would be the same of three average players: Whale: 250$first month+10$*11months=360$ 3 regular players: 3players*10$*12months = 360$ I think this is a perfectly plausible situation since people would be playing the game for more time + more players would play the game. But of course, if there is people willing to pay 250$ in a mobile game why wouldn't the developers take advantage of that? . A regular guy who doesnt live on welfare and cry, who isin a kid who live with mom and has to borrow her credit card for every purchases. . He is not some little girls who dont work and always ask bfs for money. You realise this is all the market they ignore? I would add people from Central/South America and some parts of Asia, which is my case (250$ is really a lot of money in Argentina). The point of the comparisons were just for some perspective that this is a lot of money. If you are able to pay 500$ in a mobile game it means you are in a pretty comfortable situation. And I agree, it is your right to pay if you want to. I've played the game for about 3 months now, and frankly I doesn't seem that the community is growing. I am not proposing something absurd. As we can see in several posts in the forum a lot of servers are dead, with no competition and very few players left. I'd say that the fact that people cannot compete with VIP11+ (even if they paid some amount of money) is one of the biggest reason for people leaving the game. Before you say that anyone can win... How many players without a P2P hero are on the top 5 of your arena server? I know this is totally fair, since you paid a bunch of money to have those advantages. All I'm saying is what if instead of requiring people to pay 250$ to have advantages in the game they would charge less (as I said, maybe a monthly fee). All those markets that you mock would have condition to pay to play. Which would make the game more competitive, with more people playing and more fun...Possibly they could even make more money with this approach. A lot of games work like that. But you prefer to have an elite set of players that will keep playing the game while the majority gives up. Which makes perfect sense, since you are part of this elite and competition would be bad for you.
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Post by 181Light on Nov 25, 2016 4:42:03 GMT 1
PBJT... (Peanut Butter Jelly Time)?
A lot of much bigger online games want you to buy their game $60-$80. They sometimes want a surcharge if you want it on a digital download. They then want you to maintain a monthy subscription $10-$30 a month. On top of that, there is usually extra cool content in the game that can be paid for. How many weekend trips to vegas is that after 12 months of playing?
HT if Free to download, its free to play. You can enjoy it for 12 months and get your trip to vegas. But if you enjoy it as much as you would a much bigger immersive game, what is wrong with them encouraging its players to support the game by offering up some really cool incentives? Considering how i've clearly established it's a f2p game, if you enjoy it enough to compete for 1st place, why not support it?
Your suggestion to just make everything cheaper sounds great from a player perspective, but what about the business side of it? Do you think the internet bandwidth the game uses to provide access for 10's of thousands of free accounts is free to them? Do you think programers, csrs and marketing just donate their time and facilities to host the game. These things costs money and lots of it.
They have several cheap options for a good value as you suggested. the monthly card obviosly being the best one. if you where to just buy that card, you could eventually get to vip 11. It probbly take a few years but you would get there.
I can count a couple vip 0 members in my own guild ive personally helped put into the arena rank 1 position on one of the oldest and most compeditive servers game wide.
More impressively, if you've ever watched videos made by NBSerg, check out her channel. She is often posting videos of how she takes arena rank 1, cleaning up in PVP, or solving herioc levels like their childs play. i think she is only VIP2 making her in my opinion a f2p player.
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Post by PBJT on Nov 25, 2016 19:48:49 GMT 1
First, I apologise for the money comparisons, It is something I do on my mind and I shouldn't have externalised it. There is also a lot of games that are F2P and do not require you to pay an absurd amount of money to get benefits. It depends on the philosophy of the game. I am not a huge player, but I can cite: - PVZ2 as a great game that does not require a lot of investments (I think expensive items are about 15$). Those investments give you an advantage, but not so huge.
- Good old Runescape that with a 5$ monthly fee managed to become one of the biggest games of last decade.
A game being F2P does not exclude it being P2W. You cannot compete with VIP11+ players. Of course there are some exceptions, but look at the big picture... Now try putting yourself in the place of others before asking why not support it... I'm guessing you are an independent person living in a well developed country with a good salary. Congratulations for that! Seriously, I have no problem with that, and even understand why you think it's totally valid to support the game with that amount of money. As finest helped define a lot of people are left out of the equation: - Guy who live on welfare and cry,
- A kid who live with mom and has to borrow her credit card for every purchases,
- Little girls who dont work and always ask bfs for money,
- And people who live in Central/South America/Asia.
I support the game I am VIP2. But 250$ A LOT of money for me. Imagine living in a country with huge inflation where you do not get paid as well as USA and your currency is worth 15 times less than a dollar. I know, third word countries right? . I would say the same about a kid who gets a small amount of money from his parents. How can he ever pay to compete in the game? Still by the looks of the game kids seems to be the target group of the game. As for the monetary perspective. It's just a question of supply and demand. If you are required to pay 250$ to compete in a game only few players will pay for it. While if you are required to pay 10$ a lot more will. As I said there is a whole market that, for the price they are charging, simply cannot be explored. Don't you think that if they charged less (again I am using the hypothesis of a 10$ monthly fee) a lot of players would pay for it? Wouldn't it be better for the game if they had 10 people paying 10$ monthly instead of one paying 250$ in a bulk and then spending less throughout the months? The market they are not exploring is huge. There was a guild of "latinos" in my server. After a couple of months it died out because people could not compete therefore have given up. It is hard to count the other groups. But I am sure, a lot of kids, people on welfare and little girls have given up on the game because they couldn't compete. Although F2P the fate of the game seems to be P2W. As the server gets old F2P players give up because they cannot compete (Main purpose of the game once you capped out). As you said, only a couple of F2P players are left on your server. If the advantages of P2P players were not so huge and the fee was smaller not only the game would have a lot more P2P players but also more F2P players since, although harder for them, they would still have the opportunity to compete (Which unless you are some kind of god or goddess of strategy it not possible at the moment... The Girl is really impressive I do not know how she manages to get those weekly challenges so fast . The lack of players have become an issue for VIP11+ players in a lot of servers (Just look at the threads on the forum); The game does not seem to be growing; I have seen VIP11+ complaining that the game has abusive prices (Thread about cost of new equipment). Couldn't lowering the prices to open up the game to a whole new massive market be a solution to those problems?
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Post by Jim on Nov 27, 2016 19:16:29 GMT 1
First, I apologise for the money comparisons, It is something I do on my mind and I shouldn't have externalised it. There is also a lot of games that are F2P and do not require you to pay an absurd amount of money to get benefits. It depends on the philosophy of the game. I am not a huge player, but I can cite: - PVZ2 as a great game that does not require a lot of investments (I think expensive items are about 15$). Those investments give you an advantage, but not so huge.
- Good old Runescape that with a 5$ monthly fee managed to become one of the biggest games of last decade.
A game being F2P does not exclude it being P2W. You cannot compete with VIP11+ players. Of course there are some exceptions, but look at the big picture... Now try putting yourself in the place of others before asking why not support it... I'm guessing you are an independent person living in a well developed country with a good salary. Congratulations for that! Seriously, I have no problem with that, and even understand why you think it's totally valid to support the game with that amount of money. As finest helped define a lot of people are left out of the equation: - Guy who live on welfare and cry,
- A kid who live with mom and has to borrow her credit card for every purchases,
- Little girls who dont work and always ask bfs for money,
- And people who live in Central/South America/Asia.
I support the game I am VIP2. But 250$ A LOT of money for me. Imagine living in a country with huge inflation where you do not get paid as well as USA and your currency is worth 15 times less than a dollar. I know, third word countries right? . I would say the same about a kid who gets a small amount of money from his parents. How can he ever pay to compete in the game? Still by the looks of the game kids seems to be the target group of the game. As for the monetary perspective. It's just a question of supply and demand. If you are required to pay 250$ to compete in a game only few players will pay for it. While if you are required to pay 10$ a lot more will. As I said there is a whole market that, for the price they are charging, simply cannot be explored. Don't you think that if they charged less (again I am using the hypothesis of a 10$ monthly fee) a lot of players would pay for it? Wouldn't it be better for the game if they had 10 people paying 10$ monthly instead of one paying 250$ in a bulk and then spending less throughout the months? The market they are not exploring is huge. There was a guild of "latinos" in my server. After a couple of months it died out because people could not compete therefore have given up. It is hard to count the other groups. But I am sure, a lot of kids, people on welfare and little girls have given up on the game because they couldn't compete. Although F2P the fate of the game seems to be P2W. As the server gets old F2P players give up because they cannot compete (Main purpose of the game once you capped out). As you said, only a couple of F2P players are left on your server. If the advantages of P2P players were not so huge and the fee was smaller not only the game would have a lot more P2P players but also more F2P players since, although harder for them, they would still have the opportunity to compete (Which unless you are some kind of god or goddess of strategy it not possible at the moment... The Girl is really impressive I do not know how she manages to get those weekly challenges so fast . The lack of players have become an issue for VIP11+ players in a lot of servers (Just look at the threads on the forum); The game does not seem to be growing; I have seen VIP11+ complaining that the game has abusive prices (Thread about cost of new equipment). Couldn't lowering the prices to open up the game to a whole new massive market be a solution to those problems? Guess what?? They released Neil and are asking $$$$ for it and some stupid idiot will be spending 250+$ to get him at 5*
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Post by zalastro on Nov 27, 2016 21:40:50 GMT 1
I am quite sick of this kind of threads which are working always with insults.
In short Jim you should stop calling high spenders idiots. As much as I would prefer then not spending these amounts of money they aren't idiots (not considering addicts). Why I prefer them sending less? It's because they by spending they initiate companies to use this monetizing strategy focused on whales (by the way 200$ in several games is just a dolphin)
181: Start to learn basic logics. Either high vips have an advantage, as you yourself told they should,so it's p2w, or not. This even has nothing to do with f2p. Next do the math: vip 11 only with monthly ticket takes over 4 years. Vip 15 over 40, hardly realistic. Next stay to facts. Which successful games cost over 80$, cost more over Internet, monthly fee and DLC? Even comparing the effort for an AAA title with this game is very far fetched.
Regarding making money, I would like to see a scheme like this: F2P can access all basic functions minus comfort and speed up. All content for monthly card holders is open. Rest is extra resets, speed up, more heroes in exchange etc. My idea for prices is that an active player (3 resets per day) can fully equip a p4 heroes in 3 to 4 weeks. Of course I am aware that this probably won't happen.
Regarding status of the game, I am afraid that the high vip focus won't work well with the game right now. On my server there is probably only one vip 14+ left. All others quit.
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Post by Tray on Dec 3, 2016 16:31:07 GMT 1
its p2w now, regarding battles on arena - nixaes messed up the entire balance, tactic is not needed with him if you are not going to compete with other players on arena (then why even play?), then its all right, its f2p, but arena is the most fun...
the game was fun before nixaes, but now... its frustrating he is super op compared even with another vip-heroes. im saying it as top-3 on arena, and its naturally imho
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Post by 181Light on Feb 6, 2017 2:20:29 GMT 1
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